What sports, when your teammates are going off to fight?

ИК: Илья Кравченко

АП: Анна Pavlova

АП: Thank you. Let's begin. For starters, since this is a monologue, please introduce yourself and tell us what you do.

ИК: I am Kravченко Ilья, I am a Ukrainian track and field athlete, I do pole vaulting. I'm 22 years old, I was born in Donetsk, now I'm temporarily in Germany. This is very briefly about me.

АП: Can you also name your most significant athletic victories.

ИК: Among significant ones were achievements at youth and junior levels. This is third place at the World Championship U18 under 18, silver medal from the European Championship 2019 under 20, and champion of Ukraine in all age categories.

АП: Thank you. Please tell me in more detail about your recent competitions, which took place very recently and which became the point about which I first wrote to you. That is, those competitions whose victory you dedicated to your friend.

ИК: These competitions took place in the German city of Dortmund. To be honest, there was no particular mood, no special preparation for these competitions, because... Because my best friend died, and these last days I clearly wasn't up for sports, wasn't up for training. When you... When emotions rush over you, in such moments you can't think about anything else. And I competed because I had to, and I competed first of all for my friend, to dedicate the victory to him. I managed to win, but this is completely not the main thing for me now, not the priority.

АП: Please clarify what kind of competitions these were.

ИК: This was the All-German pole vault summit.

АП: So this is an international competition taking place on German territory?

ИК: Yes, there were participants from other countries, but mainly Germans.

АП: Do I understand correctly that at the time of the competition you already knew that Vladimir had died?

ИК: Yes, that's correct. I found out on January 26th and lived with this news for several days before the competitions.

АП: And when did the competitions themselves take place?

ИК: The competitions took place the day before yesterday, January 29th.

АП: Let's talk about Vladimir. Please tell me about him, about your friendship, about him as an athlete and about him as a person. And then we'll move on to the competitions.

ИК: Volodya and I met when we were studying at the physical education college in Brovary, this is a city near Kyiv. Then we lived together in the dormitory, became friends. We have many mutual acquaintances from those times. And since then we've always been in contact, always been in touch, always met when possible.

I would also like to say that in 2014 the war began, and it forced me to move from my native city of Donetsk, to move with my parents to Kyiv. I went to this college in the suburbs of Kyiv, and there we met. A wonderful friend, wonderful person, the life of the party. He was always easy-going, very proactive, responsive. And he couldn't stay on the sidelines of these events, he couldn't sit at home. He wanted to go defend the Motherland. He went and laid down, gave his life for the freedom of his country.

АП: Can you tell me a bit more in detail about this decision of his? Now, as far as I understand, quite a lot of athletes are choosing to go to war. Did you have some conversation related to this? Did you try, maybe, to dissuade him or vice versa?

ИК: Yes, of course. It's clear that each person chooses their own fate, and many from the very first days went to territorial defense, signed up as volunteers and went to the frontline. I have another friend who is serving now, who is directly on the line of contact, who from the first days decided that he should go defend the Motherland. Someone thought over this decision, someone went from the first days.

When the war began, I think everyone was in complete shock, everyone was confused, and over time Volodya decided that he couldn't just leave it like that, that he should bring some benefit. At the end of summer - beginning of autumn he signed up. He wanted to go as a volunteer, signed a contract with the army and went for training, and then went to defend the Motherland.

АП: Didn't you have some conversation with him, didn't you try to dissuade him or vice versa, maybe he was persuading you to join?

ИК: He's an adult person, he makes... made decisions based on his convictions. I think many tried to dissuade him, but this is everyone's choice, and everyone accepted his choice, everyone accepted his decision. And, yes... when he went, it's clear that everyone worried, as for any other person there.

АП: Did you communicate after he went to the frontline?

ИК: Yes, we corresponded if not daily, then every other day or two, when he had connection, we wrote in messenger, called each other for any reason.

АП: You said that you have other athlete friends who chose this path. Is this so?

ИК: Yes, Vlad is not the only one who is now on the frontline among our track and field community. He's far from the only one, but among my close friends there's another former teammate of mine, we trained together. He's from Bakhmut, and from the first days, when the war started, he decided that he would defend his home. There's also a pole vault coach from Dnipro, who is also now defending the Motherland. These are from my directly close acquaintances, close friends.

АП: Did you yourself think about going to war?

ИК: Honestly speaking, I was never ready for this and I absolutely support the choice of a person who is ready. I can honestly say that I'm not ready. Yes, for me it's scary and... Yes, and I value my life.

АП: Why was it important for you to dedicate this victory, your victory to Vladimir?

ИК: Because I can't be silent about this when such terrible things are happening in my country. Yes, I don't have enough media presence, some popularity, so that I could fully cover what's happening, but when tragedy comes to your home, you can no longer be silent. I wanted to make some beautiful gesture in his memory, in memory of my best friend.

АП: You said that Vladimir died on the eve of the competitions. How did you learn about his death and what supported you, how did you manage to continue competing despite this?

ИК: I before... Before his death I spoke with him a few days before this, and then he didn't come online, but I wasn't particularly worried, because this is war, and there isn't always access to a phone, opportunity to call. I was at training, and when I picked up the phone, it was already flooded with messages from our mutual friends, who either sent me some photos, some messages, or vice versa asked me if I knew something. I couldn't believe it at first, I immediately wrote to his sister, and the sister confirmed. And then... everything collapsed like a wall. This tragedy, which... Which you can't close your eyes to, you think only about this. You don't believe that this could happen, you think, what if this isn't true, or you think, God forbid this was untrue, so that he would call and say: "What are you doing? What are you all doing? I'm alive." But this... This happened, and it's sad. You understand that you can't change anything.

АП: How in such a situation, when war is going on, when many friends, loved ones end up on the frontline, in danger, how does sporting life change from this? How does one manage in such situations to continue training, competing and, in general, defending the country in the sporting arena?

ИК: Regarding friends, loved ones, acquaintances at war - of course, you worry, of course, you think about this. Regarding sports - in Ukraine now it's not a question of developing sports, but a question of sports survival. To go abroad, and train, and compete in some acceptable, good conditions - this is accessible to a few, the best of the best, who have already achieved something, who have already gotten on their feet. Regarding children involved in sports, regarding weak, medium level athletes, many simply have a choice of how to survive and what to do in life.

When war comes to your country, you don't think about sports, you don't think about when, where, with whom to train. When your teammates, athlete acquaintances go to fight, when coaches go to fight, what sports can we talk about? When your sports facility is converted into a humanitarian center, what sports can there be? What competitions can there be at a moment when there's war in the country?

АП: I also want to talk about this. How has your personal situation changed? Do I understand correctly that you left long ago?

ИК: No, I left after the start of the war, since male athletes of the national team of Ukraine are given exit from the country by the Ministry of Sports for preparation and competition abroad. And so I'm now at a training base in Germany, on a training and competition camp.

АП: Please clarify when you left?

ИК: I left at the end of April - beginning of May, and returned to Ukraine in September. I spent the entire September in Kyiv. At the end of my competitive season I returned to Ukraine. And I just want to emphasize that such an option, such an opportunity is accessible to far from many athletes, and very many don't have the opportunity to go anywhere. Very many don't have the opportunity even to move somewhere within the country. And if we talk about athletes who are in occupied territories, in territories where fighting is going on now, there can be no talk of sports. All sports facilities are destroyed there, there survival is at stake - infrastructure objects, residential buildings are destroyed. It's hard for me to imagine what people go through there. And it's clear that people think about sports last.

АП: If we're talking now about high-level athletes - you spoke about the national team of Ukraine, which you're part of - how was your life organized after the start of the full-scale invasion? Were you given some documents allowing you to leave the country? Can you tell a bit more in detail how this was arranged, where you went, how you trained? How exactly did the training process change in connection with what's happening?

ИК: It's clear that it's not for me to complain. Things aren't worse for me than for everyone else. My example is hard to measure up to. But the first months of war there was no talk of any sports. I didn't attend a single training session. When the war began, I encountered it... No, let's start a bit earlier.

АП: Let's.

ИК: Before February 24th we had a training camp in the city of Sumy. And there preparation was being conducted for the Ukrainian Winter Track and Field Championship. It was supposed to take place either on the 23rd or 24th of February. And then, two days before the competitions, an order came from our federation to cancel these competitions and cancel the training camp. Then we were all sent home, and I encountered the start of the war in Kyiv. I woke up from shelling. After a few days my family and I, we decided that it would be better to go somewhere toward western Ukraine for some time and wait it out, sit it out there. We were driving, I don't know where. Halfway through our journey was the village, Vladimir's, my friend's, who... This is his native city. I don't know if you can call it a city or village, this is a village. And then terrible things were happening on the roads. And we probably drove 350 kilometers in 15 hours. And when we understood that we wouldn't get there somehow, I called him and asked to spend the night at his place, at his family's.

АП: You mean Vladimir Androshchuk?

ИК: Yes, and they received us without questions, very hospitable people, his whole family. Then we went further west and sat there for some time. Then the women from my family, my girlfriend, after some time they went abroad. We decided that it would be safer this way. And when I was already alone, I returned to Volodya, to my friend.

АП: To this village?

ИК: Yes, and stayed there with him until my very departure from Ukraine. And then, of course, there was no business with any sports. We occasionally went out to run around the stadium.

The first couple of months there was no possibility in principle for men to leave the country. And when the first documents appeared allowing athletes to travel, I continued waiting for my departure, although where to go, I absolutely didn't know. They allow you to leave for some designated period, after which you must return to Ukraine at the end of competitions or training camp. And when the documents allowing departure were ready, with the help of the Track and Field Federation I left the country.

Through acquaintances of an acquaintance coach I arranged with a German coach who was ready to take me for training, but the question of housing remained. I, roughly speaking, left wherever my eyes looked. And regarding sports, the first months were absolutely not about this. Even when I already settled here and started training, you can't set goals for yourself, nor formulate plans for the season. You just think: what to do next? I don't know what else to say.

АП: Do I understand correctly that Vladimir also had the opportunity to leave, but he decided to stay?

ИК: He had already decided then that sooner or later he would go defend the Motherland. He decided that he wanted to stay in Ukraine.

АП: You said that very few athletes can leave in principle. It's clear that the global reason for all this is war. If we talk about more specific reasons, is it difficult for athletes to leave because infrastructure is disrupted, because it's not about sports now, not about funding, or for some other reasons? Or is it a combination of all reasons?

ИК: Well, here I should divide into women and men, because for women everything is much simpler. Regarding men, yes, you have the opportunity to leave for a certain period, only already having some achievements, being a member of the national team of Ukraine. For everyone else there's no option. And when the lights go out, when there's no heating, when your city is bombed, people have to train in such conditions. This...

АП: Is worthy of admiration.

ИК: This is very hard.

АП: Did I understand correctly that only members of the national team of Ukraine can leave among men?

ИК: Sometimes just being a member of the national team of Ukraine is not enough. There's a very complex confirmation process that starts from the Federation of your sport and ends with the Ministry of Sports. You get approval based on your merits, results, performances and for a limited period.

АП: An important topic I'd like to talk about is international competitions and interaction with Russian athletes. As far as I understand, both in track and field and in many sports, Russia and Ukraine had quite close interaction. What has changed now? Now there are debates about whether to allow Russian athletes to the Olympics or to some competitions at all. What do you think about this? Do you meet Russian athletes at competitions, do you communicate with them?

ИК: This is now the main news of the sports community, the main topic of discussion. Like any Ukrainian athlete, I am categorically against allowing Belarusian and Russian athletes to international competitions - not only Olympic Games, to any international competitions. It's impossible for someone to represent a terrorist country, an aggressor country at any international event. And even when we talk about neutral status, competing without a flag, everyone understands perfectly well where this person is from. At this moment he's not representing himself, he's representing his pseudo-state.

You can't say that someone can, someone can't, when all athletes who remained there are silent, continue to compete for the armed forces of the Russian Federation. Now Russia has caused so much grief, so many troubles, that you can't remain neutral, be silent. This is definitely not enough. How to formulate correctly... How to say correctly so that I'm understood correctly...

АП: You stopped at the fact that you can't be silent when...

ИК: Yes, when now they talk about the position of the International Olympic Committee, they present it as if athletes should be allowed because these are just athletes, they're not guilty of anything. But this isn't so. When you're recognizable in your country, when you have a voice, you can't just be silent about this. Especially when there are athletes who support, who stick on this Z symbolism, this sick one, when they're ardent supporters of this regime, how can these athletes be allowed? And when now these athletes are silent, this is perceived as support for this regime.

АП: Do you know such Russian athletes who speak out against?

ИК: I personally am not acquainted with a single Russian athlete who openly expresses their position against. Against Putin, against the war, against the current regime. But I personally know a Belarusian family, Belarusian track and field athletes, who are also now in Germany, against whom criminal cases started being opened, who were essentially repressed, and they left Belarus. From the very beginning of the war they are clear opponents of Lukashenko's regime, the war, Russia's support. And I can't exactly express a position on this matter, how one should act in such a case, with such athletes. You can't speak for everyone, you need to look at a specific person, at their actions, at their words. And in this case silence is agreement with this regime. If a Russian athlete, Belarusian athlete is in Russia, and he's silent, there can be no... No, I don't know...

АП: Allowance, justification?

ИК: Yes, there can be no talk of any allowance.

АП: Do I understand correctly that if an athlete does speak out, then in your view, these people can be allowed? That is, everything is individual?

ИК: I can't exactly formulate an opinion on this matter, but I perfectly understand athletes, simply people living in Ukraine, who became radicalized in connection with what happened. Even not those who lost someone close, dear, who just lives in war. I absolutely understand people who will hate every Russian, every Belarusian, I absolutely understand these people. But how to act in a situation with such athletes who are in exile, openly express their position against the war, against Putin, against the authorities, against the regime, I don't know.

АП: You probably had acquaintance athletes in Russia with whom you communicated before the start of the war. Do you communicate now, has your communication changed somehow?

ИК: Before the war I had no close contact, friendship with Russian-Belarusian athletes. Yes, there were acquaintances. In the sector at competitions I intersected with Russian athletes, but I didn't maintain any contact with them. Let's not forget that the Russian invasion began in 2014.

АП: Yes, we'll also talk about this now.

ИК: And already then one should have thought about allowing Russian athletes. At the same time there were doping scandals with all possible Russian federations.

АП: So after the full-scale invasion none of your colleagues, if I may say so, wrote to you?

ИК: No, no. Nobody wrote. Everyone is silent, everyone is silent. I mean, of all the Russian athletes I know, everyone is silent.

АП: And at competitions now do you meet? Were they, for example, at competitions in Germany?

ИК: No, Russian athletes aren't allowed. From the moment the war started they haven't been allowed to any international competitions.

АП: Did you think about what athletes from Russia, from Belarus will need to do after the war ends to return to competitions? Should there be, in your opinion, a trial or something similar?

ИК: I don't know. Now the main thing is that this war ends with Ukraine's victory as soon as possible. And, I think, everything that will be after the war will be solvable. Responsibility will lie on everyone who is involved in justifying the war, in actions, in orders, in murders. They will have responsibility, they will bear it before the law. And before every Russian athlete will lie guilt for their state, for what they allowed. But post-war time - this will be completely different time. It's unlikely anyone will ask me what needs to be done, but I think the right decision will be found.

АП: You spoke about acquainted Belarusian athletes, about a family. Do I understand correctly that they also aren't allowed to competitions, or do they compete?

ИК: Yes, all Belarusian and Russian athletes aren't allowed to competitions of any class, any type. They're now in Germany with a small child.

АП: Did you communicate with them about what's happening? How do they relate to this non-admission? How do they relate to the fact that Belarusian athletes are also not allowed? Maybe they shared their thoughts with you?

ИК: It's hard for me to judge. I sort of share... I understand them, when you're an ardent supporter of the regime [editor's note: the speaker meant "opponent"], you were repressed by this regime and you left your country simply to save your life, and you're still not allowed. I understand them perfectly. But at the same time I don't understand how it will be possible to compete, to carry this flag, the flag of these countries mired in dictatorship, in war, who unleashed war. I can't imagine how this could be possible. It's hard for me to say.

АП: And if we talk about a neutral flag, as is also being discussed now? Is this also unacceptable for you?

ИК: I'm saying, no neutral flag, no neutral athlete is perceived as... All sports fans, fans of any sport, supporters, coaches, organizers in the sector - everyone understands perfectly what kind of neutral flag this is. And this neutral flag attracts, it seems to me, more attention. Everyone understands perfectly where this athlete is from and what country he represents. And for me any admission, in any form, is absolutely unacceptable.

АП: Probably the last question related to Russian and Belarusian athletes. Is there an equals sign between them for you now?

ИК: For me there's not only an equals sign between athletes. I understand that in Belarus there are many opponents of this regime. They showed this at rallies, but this isn't enough. And now, when shelling is conducted from Belarus territory, when troops are concentrated there, when at the very beginning of the war troops entered from Belarus territory into sovereign territories of Ukraine, how can I separate these countries? These are two countries that attacked Ukraine.

АП: I understood you, understood your position. Thank you for sharing it. Let's return to your sport. Now, as far as I understand, you continue training and you're preparing for the next performances, correct?

ИК: Yes, I still have quite a lot of competitions this season. Literally every week there will be some starts. My season is, in the very, I won't say beginning - in full swing, I guess.

АП: You said that in September you returned to Ukraine, but I understand that you stayed there not very long and then returned back to Germany?

ИК: I returned in September, for the Championship of Ukraine, which took place in Lutsk, and after this performance I stayed home to do all possible business that had accumulated during my absence. I was dealing with my treatment - all kinds of injuries. A bit more than a month I stayed in Ukraine. And after approval I again went to training camps. I think this was somewhere in October.

АП: At the beginning of our conversation you said that you're from Donetsk and in 2014, after the start of the war, you moved to Ukraine.

ИК: I moved from Ukraine to another city in Ukraine.

АП: Yes, yes, you moved from Donetsk to another city, of course. I formulated incorrectly. Then you also met with Russian athletes. Wasn't there already then some conflict or resentment that they participated in competitions? They continued participating in competitions, although war was already going on in Ukraine's territory.

ИК: I was very young. When my family and I left Donetsk, I wasn't even 14 yet. Some clearly formulated position regarding Russian athletes I didn't have yet. Everyone knew about doping scandals with Russian athletes. There was a big discussion about this: how to allow athletes whose federation falsifies samples, which hides, covers up athletes. The discussion was conducted in this vein. But I was very small to dig deeply somehow.

АП: So then the question that they need to be suspended because of war didn't arise simply?

ИК: You understand, at that moment the world perceived this completely differently. At that moment Europe, America didn't react properly to that aggression. And then Ukraine simply didn't have chances to achieve something, to explain to the world that look, whom and what you're allowing. And now, when it seems the entire civilized world understands whom it encountered, with what regime it's fighting, with what regime Ukraine is fighting, it seems to me this question shouldn't cause any discussion.

АП: This is true. You said that in the first months after the full-scale invasion it was impossible to do sports. How did you manage to return to activities?

ИК: The first months of war, of course, like for all Ukrainians, were incredibly difficult. You think not about sports, but you simply think about the future. You don't know what will happen next. Since the end of World War II the world hasn't seen such a scale of military action. And, of course, you don't know what you've encountered. You can't imagine what such a huge full-scale war is, and you live each day, you don't know, how should this happen, what will be next, in what world will I wake up in a week or tomorrow. Therefore the first months simply in complete stress.

It worked out to start training, rather, on autopilot, because you did this for many years, you got used to this, this is something familiar and understandable to you. And you start as much as possible to abstract from the external situation. You do your favorite thing to forget for some time, not think about what's happening in your country. But, for example, athletes who are now in Ukraine don't have such an opportunity to abstract even during training, when you either hear shelling outside the window and at this moment try to train, or when you don't have light. It's hard to be an athlete at such a moment, but not only athletes have it hard. And I would like to say that everyone has it hard in any sphere of activity. If you're in Ukraine, you have it hard.

АП: You spoke about the fact that at the beginning there was no possibility and strength to think about some sporting goals. Have they appeared now? Or is sport still what allows you not to go crazy?

ИК: Sport has always been some kind of outlet. Now, I would say, doubly so. You as a professional in your field, you try to normalize your life, your plans. But after one shock comes another shock. You think that something is calming down, then a rocket flies into a shopping center near your house and knocks out windows on the first floors. You're just recovering from one shock, a second rocket is shot down and falls near the house. You're just recovering, your closest friend dies. You're constantly in this, you can't forget and say: "From this day I'll live a normal life." Since February 24th no one has a normal life.

АП: Do you think now about some sporting achievements? Maybe you have some upcoming competitions for which you set a goal for yourself...

ИК: Yes, yes, of course, there are always goals for a personal record, and you're always ambitious to jump higher, and always aimed at medals. But I can't single out something specific.

АП: But you're now already thinking about some achievements?

ИК: To be honest, if I look back at recent competitions, I wasn't thinking about anything. At all competitions you always worry, no matter what professional you are. You think about technique, about some aspects of your sport. At these competitions I wasn't up for sports, wasn't up for my performance. When in your head there's only pain from losing a close person, it's hard to switch, when you sleep poorly recent nights, when you fall asleep and wake up with one thought about loss, it's hard to think about sports, whatever professional you might be there.

АП: How do athletes from other countries now relate to Ukrainian athletes? When you meet at competitions, do they ask you about the war, about what's happening? Has the attitude toward Ukrainian athletes changed somehow?

ИК: Everyone relates with condolences and understanding of what's happening. All foreign athletes I know always try to show themselves from the good side, always try to help, always responsive and friendly. There's no disagreement, no hostility. Now there definitely isn't. Everyone relates to Ukrainian athletes with full sympathy, I would say so.

АП: And is discussion of war present in sporting circles now or in principle do they only talk about sports at competitions?

ИК: Usually, of course, when it comes to competitions, everyone is busy with competitions. This is sport, you think about yourself at this moment. But I don't train alone, there are many foreign athletes and German athletes here. They're all perfectly informed about the situation, but at the same time they're very interested to hear firsthand about what's happening, about your personal story. And they all try to help, support however they can. And, yes, they understand perfectly, but maybe don't fully realize what horror is happening in Ukraine.

АП: Do they say something to you or how is this expressed?

ИК: I know everyone, and everyone knows my story. But at the beginning yes, they tried to help with anything - from clothing to any pastime, asked a lot.

АП: Do I understand correctly that now there are quite a lot of Ukrainian athletes in Germany, there where you train, for example?

ИК: No, here where I specifically train, there's practically no one here, but many athletes are scattered throughout Germany, training. And big thanks to Germany, which accepts athletes and gives conditions for training. There are special funds, organizations that from the very beginning of the war help, people who help Ukrainian track and field athletes with housing, with training. Regarding my sport, there's very developed infrastructure here and very many high-quality sports facilities. And one of the most developed countries in Europe in this sport, therefore there are many Ukrainian athletes in Germany.

АП: Is preparation for the Olympics already going on among Ukrainian athletes, and do you participate in it, you and your colleagues?

ИК: Well, you know, preparation for Olympics, which are still a year and a half away - this is some very broad concept. Preparation is always conducted, but not with such long terms. If the competitive season is winter and summer, then you train for winter, and then for summer. That is, it's hard to say that preparation is going specifically for Olympic Games. This is a very long term and a very long period of time. It's unclear what can happen during this time.

АП: Do I understand correctly that personally you have the opportunity to participate in the Olympics?

ИК: Well, to participate in Olympic Games, you need to qualify for Olympic Games. And, I think, having the opportunity to qualify is possible a year before the start of Olympic Games, so it's still early to talk about anything now.

АП: And do you plan to do this?

ИК: I train for this, this is my dream. This is the dream of any athlete - to visit Olympic Games. I don't know if you'll find an athlete who will say that he's not preparing and doesn't want to go there.

АП: Returning to Russian and Belarusian athletes we already discussed - what would you say to an athlete who approached you and said: "I trained for several years and prepared for Olympics, and now because the country where I live unleashed war or supports it, I can't participate." What would you say to this person? ИК: Everything is very individual for each person, but first of all, they should openly state their position without fearing anything. Or leave the country and express their position in safety. The borders aren't closed, such opportunities exist. Everyone who sits there, those athletes who compete for CSKA, for the RF army – these are direct supporters of the regime. And those who remain silent – this is perceived as supporters of the war, because there's so much grief now that simply remaining silent isn't enough. And it's impossible to allow someone on the international level who will remain silent and then come out on the podium with Z-symbolism, as already happened, I think, in gymnastics. And I personally know not even Russian, but Belarusian athletes in my sport, who publicly don't express themselves in any way about the war, try to hide, try to show neutrality in every way, but in reality literally walk around with a swastika-Z on their forehead. They even managed to look when they posted stories on Instagram for close friends with Z-symbolism in support of the war. It's impossible to allow such athletes to compete in international competitions, because silence now means supporting the war.

АП: The last question, probably: are you planning to return to Ukraine after the war ends? Or maybe earlier?

ИК: Of course I'm planning to. This is my home. Yes, I would like to travel the world, go to all kinds of competitive... I didn't want to, I still don't want to leave Ukraine, this is my home. Everything there is mine, native, so yes, I would like to live in a free, independent and prosperous Ukraine.

АП: Do you allow the possibility that you'll return to Ukraine before the war ends?

ИК: Sooner or later I'll definitely return. At least on February 20th we'll have the Winter Championship of Ukraine, which I'm planning to go to and compete in. This already means that I'll return.

АП: Very soon, it turns out.

ИК: Yes.

АП: One more question related to athletes who end up on the frontline. I wrote to quite many athletes, primarily biathletes, for example. They told me that first they went to the frontline, then returned to competitions, to training camps. Are there among your acquaintances people who first went to war, then returned to training camps, and are they planning to return to the frontline later? Do such cases happen at all when an athlete manages to be both there and there?

ИК: Among my acquaintances there are no such examples. There are different situations. There are several acquaintances who immediately with the start of the war signed up for territorial defense units. And then, when in the first months of the war things somehow settled down, they decided that they would be more useful at competitions than, conditionally, at a checkpoint. Also many athletes who compete for the Armed Forces of Ukraine were called up from the very beginning of the war: some were sent for training, some were sent to the border with the same Belarus. But there were very many volunteers without combat experience, with combat experience, who decided that they should defend Ukraine, and there were enough people. And these athletes were allowed to continue their line of work and return to sport. Such examples existed. I don't know anyone who, as you say, went to fight, then returned to sport and went to fight again. No, I don't know of such cases.

АП: I understand you. Thank you very much for the conversation. I think we'll finish on this note. I'll ask you to send several photographs, because usually we accompany interviews with shots of the person we're talking with. It's better if it's some kind of close-up portrait and a photograph from competitions, I think you shouldn't have problems with this. If you have any joint photographs with Vladimir, that would also be great.

ИК: Yes.

АП: And also, we would very much like to talk with Ekaterina Tabashnik. I understand that she's also from the Athletics Federation.

ИК: Yes, she lost her mother.

АП: Yes-yes-yes, that's why it would be very important for us to talk with her, but unfortunately, I wrote to her on Facebook and Instagram, she didn't respond. Maybe you have some other personal contacts of hers, or you could ask her if she's ready to talk with us?

ИК: I can ask her.

АП: It would be very good if it worked out.

ИК: I don't know if everyone is ready... Many Ukrainians are unlikely to be ready to speak with Russian, even opposition media. I know many who aren't ready to speak under any circumstances. But it seems to me that it's important... When you speak only to a Ukrainian audience, it turns out that you're surrounded by people who understand everything and support you anyway. And they don't need to be explained once again what war is and how terrible it is. And by refusing interviews with foreign media, they deprive themselves of the opportunity to convey their opinion to broader masses. I'll ask her.

АП: Thank you very much. Yes, I know from my experience that many Ukrainians refuse to speak, but each conversation is all the more valuable, and I'm always very grateful to those who agree. I'm very grateful that you responded so immediately and were ready to talk with us the same day.

ИК: I got carried away talking, because in the beginning I was somehow nervous. I apologize.

АП: No, what are you saying, everything's fine. And I'm very glad that we discussed many important things with you. And you're absolutely right when you say that in Ukraine everyone understands everything, but in Russia and in the world they don't always understand. And it seems that the more such information appears, the more people learn about it. This is very valuable. Thank you for agreeing to talk, thank you for asking Ekaterina.

ИК: Thank you for covering the events.