They loaded everyone: dogs, cats, a hedgehog

КА: Katya Alexander

ЕР: Elena Rotar

ГР: Gennady Rotar

КА: Hello, Alena, how are you?

ЕР: I'll pass the phone to my husband, and he'll talk, okay? His name is Gena. And I'm busy right now, feeding the dogs.

КА: Good afternoon, Gennady, hello. Did your wife tell you who I am?

ГР: Yes, yes.

КА: First of all, tell me, how are you feeling now?

ГР: Well, how... we're recovering, two days in the sun, on the roof, under rockets, under the sun, under drones, not knowing what would fall on your head. I still can't believe we're home.

КА: Let's start from the very beginning, you'll tell the story step by step. Can you start directly from June 6th, first of all, where were you? What was the first thing you saw, discovered in the morning?

ГР: The explosion of the Kakhovka Dam?

КА: Yes.

ГР: Around 6 in the morning I woke up, maybe earlier, immediately went into telegram. It was written that around three o'clock at night they blew up the Kakhovka Dam. I went outside to see how the water was rising. There didn't seem to be such a current, the water stood normally. But I decided to alert all the neighbors. They were still sleeping, nobody believed it either. Around nine o'clock the water started coming in. Very strongly it started coming in, that around ten, probably eleven, we already had our rooms flooded about waist-deep. We already started taking out documents, the first necessary things. The boat was already floating, I loaded my wife into the boat, and we moved to a two-story house to the second floor. Those houses had been opened by the Russians, meaning we freely entered the second floor, thought we'd wait it out there. We look, and water is already coming in up the stairs. Then the caretaker arrived, Ivan Kushnir, without whom we probably wouldn't have survived. He helped everyone a lot. And we moved to another room, sat there until eight o'clock in the evening, and again water started coming in, started flooding the second floor. Then around 9 o'clock he came by, and we moved to a two-story house onto the roof.

КА: This is already the fourth house?

ГР: This is the fourth, yes. This is from our house, to the two-story house and the fourth roof. That's where we settled. I have a German shepherd dog, she's very afraid of water - at a young age she fell into water. It was very hard to lift her from the boat, she bit us all, naturally. Around one o'clock at night we were already on the roof. Nearby there were four more people, a two-story house. In the morning we resettled them also onto the roof, at four in the morning, on our roof there were eight people, four dogs and two cats. Well, and along the way we picked up a hedgehog.

КА: A hedgehog?

ГР: Yes, we saved a hedgehog.

КА: And how did you save the hedgehog?

ГР: He was swimming in the water, we went down on the boat, took him into the boat, and brought him up to the roof with us. He was with us for two days, and then, when our Armed Forces of Ukraine came, they took the hedgehog to the city too.

КА: And did he let himself be taken in hands normally? He was really swimming in the water?

ГР: Well yes, he was swimming in the water.

КА: Poor little one! I have several clarifying questions. In what settlement was all this?

ГР: Our dacha is located at the sports corner, cooperative Prolisok. Earlier it was called Prolisok, and then, when they made new documents - Gorkommunkhoz.

КА: Aha, this was on occupied territory, right?

ГР: Yes, this was the left bank. The most interesting thing is that as soon as the explosion happened in Kakhovka, the Russian soldiers ran away. Although before this they walked around the dachas in the morning and evening, were afraid that our Armed Forces of Ukraine wouldn't cross to this bank and get behind them.

КА: And how did this manifest? How did they, conditionally, fear?

ГР: They made rounds of the territory late at night and early in the morning, climbed through dachas, walked along the path. They repeatedly entered empty dachas, were afraid that our Armed Forces of Ukraine could cross to this bank, and hide somewhere for conducting operational activities in some abandoned house. They climbed through every house.

КА: Let's go back a little bit more. So after your house you moved to the second house, it was empty, right?

ГР: Yes, it was open, because there wasn't a single house at the dacha that they didn't climb into. They simply broke these locks on the doors, all the dachas were open. The lock was broken open, they broke windows and entered the premises through the window.

КА: Their usual behavior. And when you moved from your house to the second house, you said there was a boat there. And who was operating this boat? Was someone already helping you?

ГР: No, the boat was abandoned, it was already floating. It was standing in the yard, the water rose, and it was in free float.

КА: Meaning you operated it yourself?

ГР: I didn't operate it. I, as much as I could, sat my wife down, my dogs, and dragged this boat through the water. I was swimming, you could say, and pulling the boat behind me.

КА: And at that moment what level was the water already at?

ГР: At that moment the water was up to my neck. If I'm approximately, my height is one meter ninety-one, somewhere around one meter eighty it already was.

КА: Meaning this was still during the day of the sixth, on the day of the explosion?

ГР: Yes, this was somewhere after lunch.

КА: Aha, in this second house can you tell in a bit more detail, how long were you there, and what was happening there?

ГР: Until six o'clock we were, so, in the second house...

КА: Evening?

ГР: Evening, yes, we started moving, because the step already, the last step, was covered with water. Meaning another half hour, and water would have come to the second floor. We exited through the window on the second floor. The boat boldly came right up to the window of the second floor.

КА: And this boat that was already picking you up from the second house, did someone already arrive?

ГР: This is Vanya Kushnir, he's both our caretaker and electrician. He came on a boat with a motor and picked us up from there.

КА: And did you contact him beforehand somehow?

ГР: The thing is, he constantly came to us, was interested in whether we would move... You could say, he forced us to move.

КА: And you didn't want to?

ГР: We thought that the [water] wouldn't rise any more. But then already, when we saw that water was about to come to the second floor, we called him back, and he immediately came.

КА: And when you were sitting in the second house, and water had already started approaching the second floor, what state were you in? What state was your wife in, the dogs?

ГР: The thing is, I know Vanya, I know that he won't abandon us. We were in normal condition, the dogs, of course...

КА: And how did they behave?

ГР: We constantly fed them pills - valerian, sedatives. Because, when they bombed us, they related very terribly to this.

КА: Meaning throughout all the time in general?

ГР: Yes, yes, yes, and they bombed us constantly. And they bombed, and shells flew from both one side and the other, all through our dachas.

КА: And am I understanding correctly that your dacha, it's close to Nova Kakhovka?

ГР: No, it's not to Nova Kakhovka, our dacha is located opposite the river port in the city of Kherson.

КА: Meaning this is near Oleshky?

ГР: Well yes, near Oleshky, not with Oleshky, but near Khutyrishche, this is Oleshkovsky district. Solontsy there, where the Russians were located, we're between Solontsy and the city. We were, you could say, in a buffer zone, everything flew through us.

КА: Everything flew through you, and at the same time Russians were present in your dachas, right? They were there all the time?

ГР: They were present not in our dachas, we have two cooperatives there, the length of these dachas is about 3 kilometers. We, our house was located at the end of the dacha, and they were located at the very beginning. So, from us they were located somewhere three kilometers away, but there was constant movement, we constantly saw them.

КА: From this house, you sat there until 18:00 on June 6th, right?

ГР: No, in the second house we sat somewhere until 9 o'clock in the evening.

КА: In the second house after yours, meaning, the one that was open.

ГР: No, in the second house we sat somewhere until 3, then we moved to Andrey's in the third house after ours... Ah, so at 18:00 we arrived at Andrey's, this is already the 2nd house.

КА: And did you know where to sail?

ГР: The thing is, Vanya was already there, Vanya had moved from his house. He's located one house away from us, this is the caretaker, Kushnir. He was there and came for us, and we settled there.

КА: How was it there and how much water was there at that moment?

ГР: There the house was higher, meaning to the second floor there were 4 steps, but these steps filled with water very quickly. Literally we left 5 centimeters before water would get to the second floor. We exited through the window and went to the roof.

КА: How long, it turns out, were you in this house, where Vanya was with you?

ГР: Somewhere from six to ten o'clock.

КА: And it started to almost completely flood it, right?

ГР: Yes, yes.

КА: You had already made two moves at this point. What state were you in, was it scary for you and your wife, did it get worse for the dogs?

ГР: Scary, what can you say is scary? It's scary when they bomb. But otherwise it wasn't scary. We worried more about the dogs.

КА: Meaning you had already experienced so much in occupation that...

ГР: Yes, water, this was already not scary, we simply knew that if we get to the roof, and the roof is very high... If I were meeting with you, of course, I would show you photographs.

КА: And can you send them to me?

ГР: No, I can't send these photographs, because my daughter from Germany sent me these photographs and said that I shouldn't forward them to anyone. The thing is, from these photographs, when our Ukrainian soldiers photographed us, enemies can through a program read out surnames, where they live.

КА: I understand, yes, good, then we won't. And, so, from the house together with Vanya you moved somewhere onto a roof?

ГР: Yes, onto a roof. Lena says that maybe she can send photographs. Lena photographed us, how we were flooded, that only pipes [were sticking out]...

КА: Aha, we'll get to the photographs yet. You were in this house together with Ivan, and then you moved to the roof. How long did you sail and how much water was there at that moment already?

ГР: At that moment the water on the second floor of this house, where we were, was already flooded about knee-deep.

КА: And you moved there?

ГР: There we sailed on the boat for about five minutes, this was all located nearby. But we were already sailing there, because the sheds were flooded. Carefully, so as not to crash into any shed, because the sheds were already not visible.

КА: And you climbed there onto the roof, how many people were you, how many animals were there, what was happening?

ГР: First we climbed up, we had 4 people, we also took one neighbor. The first time, when we were going, he was sitting in the attic of his house. We offered him to come with us, he categorically refused. Then, when we settled on the roof, Ivan went and took him, you could say, by force together with his dog.

КА: And why did he refuse?

ГР: Well, I don't know why he refused... Ah, he had geese there.

КА: Geese?

ГР: Yes, yes, we also took the geese.

КА: And how many geese were there?

ГР: About twenty geese there were, but they were small, one month old. On the roof we made them a pen, so they lived separately.

КА: You made a pen on the roof for the geese?

ГР: Yes.

КА: And how?

ГР: So, we had four people there and three dogs, two cats. And at four in the morning people started shouting, this is the neighboring house: "Vanya, take us too." And four people, Vanya came on the boat and transported one person at a time, because the people were heavy. He transported one person at a time: two women and two men of age. The oldest was seventy years old, the women were about sixty-eight, probably also sixty-five, and the man also sixty-five, but very heavy. We slept, of course, it was very cold, we took things to lay down, to cover ourselves. And during the day, when the sun started to burn, Ivan decided to make a canopy. Boards were floating, he collected these boards and made a canopy.

КА: And how did he make it?

ГР: Well, he's a master of all trades, the thing is, boards were floating with nails. He pulled them out, straightened them, pallets were floating there too. He made a construction for a canopy, and we covered it with sheets, so the sun wouldn't burn.

КА: And can you tell about the pen for the geese, how did you build it?

ГР: Again, from such boards. On the street mosquito screens were floating in the water, nets that are put on doors, on windows. With the help of these screens, nets we made a little pen in the corner.

КА: And how did the geese feel?

ГР: You know, not bad, not bad.

КА: And they didn't cry, didn't behave somehow, well...

ГР: We fed them, everyone had something there, dry food, porridge. Lena suggests, on the boat we picked grape leaves, mulberry leaves - they ate very well, so normally.

КА: This you picked all this for the geese?

ГР: Yes, yes, yes, we specially went, picked and brought to them.

КА: And you also said that you covered yourselves with what there was. And where did you even have things from, did you manage to take something from the house?

ГР: Yes, from the house we took, of course, and nearby, where the four people were, this is a residential house, they are the owners of this house. They also took with them both sheets, and to cover themselves, and to put a blanket under their backs, so as not to lie on the bare floor, we had everything with us.

КА: And what did you and your wife generally manage to take with you from your things?

ГР: Well, what we were dressed in, that's how we came, we only managed to take documents. We tried to save, while the water was waist-deep, we carried out electrical appliances, because we lived there for a long time, we didn't live in the city. We lived winter and summer at the dacha. We had a microwave there, and all the equipment that normal people have in the city, stoves, well, and to drink coffee, and so on. During this time we tried to carry all this to the second floor, to the attic. In the end, our attic was flooded too, so we left in what we were in, that's how we moved.

КА: Only took documents, right?

ГР: Documents, a couple of shorts, what came to hand. What was dry, that's what we took, because we were already walking waist-deep in water.

КА: You mentioned dogs several times, in plural. Do you have besides the German shepherd, who's afraid of water, other dogs too?

ГР: Another dog attached herself to us several years ago, we took her too, she lived with us. We took her too, so as not to leave her. And we have a cat.

КА: Two dogs and a cat, right?

ГР: Yes, yes, yes.

КА: And what are their names?

ГР: So, the German shepherd is called Akbar, shortened Parik. And the black one, a mutt, Efim, Fima. And the cat Felya.

КА: Beautiful names! All this time, you with a company of people are on the roof, everything is already quite seriously flooded. What was generally happening around and what were you talking about among yourselves this night, morning, evening, when you had already settled on the roof?

ГР: The thing is, everyone had phones, and we observed what they were saying. Ah, and we captured a radio, listened to how much the water would rise. We discussed what to do next, started calling all acquaintances. We had a woman, maiden name Tsyryulnik. And her daughter was in Kyiv, or son, in general, he somehow arranged with the military to take us out. I didn't believe that the military could come, because we had to go across the Dnipro, there the current is very strong. I didn't believe in this. But the guys came. In the evening, around five o'clock, even later, around six, they came on two boats. They were told in Kyiv that there were two people on the roof there. And we with beards, men, they immediately [raised] automatic weapons, hands up, but we thought these were Russians. Now Russians will, most likely, take us and transport us to occupied territory. They simply got scared themselves, and then saw, glory to heroes, said, we answered them in Ukrainian language, our own, and started taking us.

КА: And it turns out that they sailed to occupied territory, right?

ГР: Yes, yes, yes, I, honestly speaking, myself, you could say, military, I simply didn't think that they could conduct such an operation.

КА: And nobody hindered them, meaning, didn't shell them?

ГР: No.

КА: Aha, meaning, they could enter the occupied part of Kherson region without problems?

ГР: There were very many problems there, because our river was mined, about 100 landmines. And these landmines started exploding when the water started rising. This all happened before our eyes, because logs were floating down the river, and furniture was floating. They caught on, there landmines were suspended on cables. They caught on these cables, and detonation occurred, and landmines exploded. Before our eyes, about 10 landmines exploded.

КА: Around you?

ГР: Yes, you could say, around us. They had very many problems, besides getting there, they risked their lives.

КА: And what did they tell about their path to you?

ГР: You know, they didn't tell anything, even when we were traveling with them. Everyone looked to the sides, so as not to run into a landmine, no conversations. And they watched so that there were no Russians either, so we didn't have any conversation.

КА: And at this moment the occupiers had disappeared, meaning they simply weren't there?

ГР: They disappeared already in the morning or at night. Their leadership, apparently, knew that the dam had exploded, and they left. When we were leaving, when we were passing by houses, this was something... I was in shock! There were no houses, only roofs were sticking out! Roofs were sticking out, destroyed houses were standing. Higher ones, two-story, broken by shells. Many houses simply floated downstream.

КА: And can you tell in more detail how they took you? How was the process organized?

ГР: Well, how? They loaded all the dogs, simply took everyone and that's it. The problem was only with our German shepherd. The thing is, lowering her from height, she bit us. I was generally planning to stay, because I didn't want that because of me... You never know, suddenly they start shooting, drones are flying, so that nobody gets hurt. But still we took the dog and left on three boats. There were two military boats and one small boat, I was traveling with the German shepherd, and Vanya Kushnir was at the motor. A military boat was traveling in front, we were in the middle, a second military boat was closing. I didn't see, but Lena says that a drone was also accompanying us. A drone all the way, our Ukrainian one, accompanied our boats.

КА: When you were sailing, can you try to describe to me what you saw around yourselves? You said about roofs, can you try to describe this picture to me, what was generally happening at this moment in the flooded dachas?

ГР: Houses, pipes were sticking out of flooded two-story houses, many houses were floating downstream. There was very much garbage on the river, we went around landmines that were sticking out in the water. That's how we got there, by roundabout ways. I didn't even know that there were roads there, that you could get to the Dnipro.

КА: And did you sail for long?

ГР: We sailed for probably forty, forty-five minutes. We sailed for a long time.

КА: And you ended up in Kherson, right?

ГР: Yes, we came out in the area of Arestanka. Just in this area [now] we live. But since Lena was in one boat, I in another, we reached the river port. The current was very strong. We came to the river port, entered the territory of the river port, to the circle, where trolleybuses stop, the terminal trolleybus stop. Literally we could almost reach the trolleybus wires with our heads. Such high water there already was.

КА: Already in Kherson?

ГР: Yes, yes, yes. And we reached somewhere to the street, corner of Kommunarov and Krasnofloiskaya (Note: these are old names, now the streets are called Ratushnaya and Bogoroditskaya), where police, journalists and volunteers with food met us. Police workers recorded all our data. The brother of one of the people who was with us met us, took everyone home by car after we gave all data about ourselves.

КА: And in the city itself where did you live? Did you live in Oleshky?

ГР: No, we live in the city in Kherson.

КА: And the dacha is located in occupied territories?

ГР: In occupied territories, yes.

КА: And before they blew up the dam, how did you get there?

ГР: We got there by boat. A boat went to us, but it went until November 6th. After the liberation of Kherson, November 11th they liberated Kherson, so November 12th the boat was the last to Kherson. And then Russian troops already started moving. Lena suggests, September 14th Russians already settled with us. (Note: Gennady's slip, he's talking about November)

КА: And weren't you afraid to move to the dacha, which is under occupation?

ГР: The thing is, we lived there for 10 years. We didn't live in the apartment, we moved. I've been retired for 18 years already, I worked in criminal investigation. With the rank of lieutenant colonel I retired in 2005. And we decided to move to live at the dacha. Fresh air, good house, with a stove. We brought all communications there, and washing machines. The same thing that normal people have in their house.

КА: And all this time, during occupation, you couldn't get to Kherson, or could you?

ГР: No, after Russian troops arrived, we couldn't leave anymore. When Kherson was under occupation, we traveled to the city of Kherson, bought things and came back.

КА: I have another question that arose. And while you were sitting on the roof, what did you eat all this time?

ГР: The thing is, everyone grabbed something with them. We even cooked food there.

КА: How?

ГР: A half-empty gas cylinder was floating, and Vanya had with him, he took a small gas burner like that and small cylinders like that. He loved to go out to nature with his wife, drink coffee. We even made coffee, he had instant coffee. The cylinders, naturally, ran out literally within several hours. And that gas cylinder floated by together with a two-burner hotplate, and we cooked food, and we had pasta.

КА: Someone took it, right, with them?

ГР: Yes, yes.

КА: And you also said that at the very beginning all this time shelling continued, can you tell about this?

ГР: Yes, at night, when we slept the first night, shells flew over us to the city.

КА: This is when you slept on the roof or still in the house?

ГР: On the roof, on the roof. The last night on the roof shells were flying.

КА: How was this, can you tell?

ГР: So, Russians shot at the city, ours shot back at them. There was counter-battery, fire everywhere.

КА: Was this scary, scarier than in the house?

ГР: No, it wasn't scary, because we had already gotten used to it in half a year.

КА: Am I understanding correctly that you lost your beloved house?

ГР: Why lost? When it goes away, God grant we get there in the near future. We'll dry everything, we'll do repairs and move there again. Already after we drive out these Russians.

КА: After de-occupation you'll return, will restore the house, right?

ГР: Of course, of course, many people will return there.

КА: How was it for you under such circumstances, in such a situation, to get out of occupation?

ГР: I didn't understand the question.

КА: You were in occupation all this time, and at the same time now you got out of occupation. Ukrainian military saved you both from the flood and from occupation. Do you experience this somehow specially?

ГР: You know, I still can't believe this. Somehow it's still unusual, I haven't even gotten used to it. That shells don't fly over your head. And there are no soldiers, no checks. It's still unusual, I can't believe this.

КА: Now the most unusual thing - is it that there are no Russian military around?

ГР: Yes, and that there are no Russians, and here, where we live, somehow there are no explosions, and shells don't fly, we only hear, somewhere in the distance ours shoot back at Oleshky. Generally unusual, we got very unaccustomed to the city. There's no one even to communicate with, two people live in our house. In a building of 40 apartments, 2 or 3 more people besides us live. Opposite stands a 5-story building, 1 person there. There are no people at all.

КА: And when you were sailing, there was also shelling, right? Or no?

ГР: No. The thing is, our motor works loudly, I didn't hear. Lena says, she was with Ukrainian military, there, the motor works very quietly, so she says that ours shot at Oleshky. We were lucky, and now I'm reading that yesterday they hit, a serviceman died.

КА: Yes, he got 130 people out, I read, what a great tragedy.

ГР: So we were lucky.

КА: And how is it generally now in Kherson? Is Kherson flooding, not flooding? I still don't understand well what's happening there.

ГР: You know, we live, you could say, in the elevator area. We are located from the Dnipro, roughly speaking, somewhere about 100 meters. We're dry, we're not flooding. I myself was surprised that we don't have water here, the elevator closes us off.

КА: And how do the animals feel in the city, how is all this given to them?

ГР: Animals? Yes, it's unusual for them. They're dacha animals, they grew up at the dacha, it's unusual for them. We live on the third floor, we have to walk them three times. The stairs are a problem, because we have an old German shepherd, he's 10 years old. After these stresses it's hard for him, of course.

КА: How are you and your wife now? Then it wasn't scary, it turned out that shelling is the scariest thing. Now two days have already passed since your evacuation. Now do you somehow understand that you could have drowned there, that everything was in water? Has some fear appeared after the fact?

ГР: You could say, yes. You could say that we could have drowned, if nobody had taken us out. If the water had risen, I don't know what would have happened to us. Now I simply think like this, that now it's scary after the fact, but there it wasn't scary.

ЕР: There was, generally, a good gap.

ГР: A big water gap, more than a meter, the water didn't reach the roof.

КА: It's unclear how it is there now with the water level?

ГР: They say that the water started falling. For tonight they write that by 20 centimeters. It's unclear how we'll get there. First of all, we need to resolve issues with the military about how to get there. If the water falls, then landmines will already be visible. There are still very many cats left there. Will they survive, won't they survive...

КА: God grant they survive. And the geese were also saved?

ГР: The geese yes, they took them.

КА: And the hedgehog too?

ГР: Yes, Vanya took the hedgehog. He took one cat and a dog. This dog isn't his, a dacha dog, from Chaika. There, where the Russian fascists lived. He took her. The people left, the Russians took them out, they simply had no option to stay. Yura lived there with his mother, the mother is over 80 years old, she fell, her leg started turning blue and it was necessary... They left, the Russians took them to Solontsy, they have acquaintances there. And they left the dog to Vanya.

КА: And you plan to return to your house already after your dacha settlement is liberated from Russians, right?

ГР: Yes, yes. If the military allow us to go there. When they drive them out of Oleshky to a distance, so they don't bomb us. We plan to, of course, we plan to.

КА: I understand, this is your house, you probably built it yourselves too.

ГР: No, we didn't build it, Alena's father built it. Such a solid house.

КА: Still family, right?

ГР: Yes.

КА: Tell me, please, is there something you have to tell about the explosion of the dam, about what happened in the last three days, that I didn't ask you about?

ГР: In principle, there's nothing to say, because the water rose instantly before our eyes. On the roof we sat, every hour we watched how the water rises.

КА: And at that moment wasn't it scary to watch how the water rises very quickly?

ГР: You understand, on the second day it wasn't rising so strongly anymore, when we were sitting on the roof, as it was on the first. It wasn't rising very quickly, somewhere an hour by five centimeters. A bit later by three centimeters, and so we counted by bricks, in how much time the water, if it rises like this, would reach us, would it reach us at all. We weren't exactly sure that... I couldn't even think that they would take us out. Knowing the situation in the city, on the Dnipro, we knew that they had mined us. I didn't think that they would take us out. Well done, guys. They risked their lives insanely, to take us out.

КА: So you didn't think about the fact that they would take you out. What, maybe, was your plan? Maybe you somehow thought, and what to do, if the water reaches the roof?

ГР: The thing is, a big boat was floating by, apparently, had come loose. And I think that we would have sat on this boat, eight people, and sat and waited until the water fell. That was our plan. And plus Vanya's boat, we would have sat in these boats probably, waiting until the water fell, or until they picked us up.

КА: Tell me, please, what is your and your wife's surname?

ГР: Rotar.

КА: Tell me, please, will you have the possibility to send me photographs of you and your wife, maybe the dogs.

ГР: Well, Lena can photograph the dogs now.

ЕР: So thin, terrible...

ГР: What terrible? Normal, I lost about thirty kilograms.

КА: Wow, this is from occupation?

ГР: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, because everything best went to the dogs. You can't explain to dogs that there's nothing to feed them with. We gave grain, he kept chickens, we took grain from him, cooked wheat, then ground it on a meat grinder. We added old sunflower oil, what we fried with in better times. We had some left, we felt it would be useful. And we caught fish.

КА: That's how you survived?

ГР: That's how we survived, yes. And we fed cats, and caught fish, fed all people with fish, shared this fish. Until they mined it, we put nets and caught fish, shared fish with people, that's how we saved ourselves.

КА: And didn't stores work for you or everything cost...?

ГР: We don't have stores at all at the dacha, not at all and never had. What saved us was that we always bought food for winter, and bought dog food by bags. Quickly something ran out, we had to feed them wheat.

КА: And you, it turns out, had keys to the Kherson apartment with you, right, since you got there?

ГР: Yes, of course, the keys were there.

КА: And how long hadn't you been there, it turns out?

ГР: Since November. Lena was there November 6th, the last time she went for groceries.

КА: Maybe you have some joint photograph with your wife? And what you saw during the flood, I would also be very grateful for these photographs.

ГР: Yes, joint photographs Lena will send a bit later. And now she'll send those photographs that she took from the roof, the view of our dachas.

КА: Lord, what happiness that you're alive, that you're now on Ukraine-controlled territory, that everything is good with you. Really, very great happiness that everything is good with you.

ГР: And I knew that everything would be good with you, a gypsy fortune-teller predicted to me that we would live long.

КА: When?

ГР: When I was a cadet at police school, I was on internship in one of the districts of the city of Kherson, gypsies approached me. I was in uniform, they asked where the streets were located, naturally, I told them everything, showed, explained. And one gypsy woman read my palm. And therefore I didn't worry much, I knew that everything would be good.

КА: And are you both with your wife retired now, right?

ГР: Yes. I've been retired for 18 years, because police retired very early. There was years of service, there was an option to get a good pension, I didn't want to leave, of course, but I decided that I needed to leave.

КА: And didn't the Russians bother you for having such a work record?

ГР: They bothered, someone turned me in. An FSB agent nicknamed Khan came. It so happened that he didn't come to us, to the neighbors. The dog barked, I came out. These soldiers got scared themselves, pointed automatic weapons in my direction: hands up, who lives here, come out with passports. I took passports, mine and my wife's, and went there. One of them let slip: "So it's you, Gennady Ivanovich?". I understood that if they know me, name, patronymic, after looking at the passport too, I understood that I was turned in. They checked documents, and the FSB agent was talking with the neighbor. Then this FSB agent came, Khan, a Kalmyk by nationality. My height, tall, one meter ninety. Well, and he took the documents again. He says: who are you? I say, a pensioner. I understood that he found out that, if I start fooling around, it will end worse. I say, yes, a pensioner, I worked in criminal investigation investigating murders. And I left for pension from operational duty, duty unit of the Internal Affairs Department with the rank of lieutenant colonel. I understood that they had already turned me in, I think, why hide it. Immediately his reaction was: now I'll shoot through your knee. He spoke to me formally. Now I'll shoot through the knee, put a bag on your head, we'll take you out, so, to the territory where they were based. I started having a conversation with them, I say: for what? Do I represent some danger to Russia's national security? I, I say, am a pensioner, retired for 18 years. I, I say, investigated murders, was the same kind of policeman as your Russian colleague. I, I say, have very many acquainted colleagues from Belgorod, because for some reason all criminals traveled to us in the south. They fled from Russia, traveled to us in the south, to Genichesk. And when representatives from Belgorod, Voronezh detained them, they came to the border with Ukraine, we communicated well with them, very many acquaintances. And so, word by word, he started calming down. That's where it all ended.

КА: Meaning he decided not to touch you in the end?

ГР: Yes, yes, yes.

КА: Was it scary?

ГР: Yes, you know, it was scary already after he left. I was sitting with them, leg on leg, that's how I was talking. I thought what will be, will be. Well, it worked out. The thing is, after this how many times new ones came, they conducted rotation every 10 days, 2 weeks. And they really wanted us to move out of this dacha. Not only us, everyone who lived there. I said that I had talked with this Khan. You could even say that this saved me, that I had talked with Khan. Apparently, he had authority there. I don't know his rank, but such an FSB agent. We talked normally.

КА: You see, the fortune-teller didn't deceive.

ГР: Well yes, well yes.

КА: It saved you, of course.

ГР: The acquaintance with this Khan, you could say, this was lucky for me.

КА: It would be better if he hadn't been there at all, of course, neither Khan nor occupation.

ГР: If I had started twisting and turning, I don't know how this would have ended. But someone definitely turned me in. They knew who I was. КА: And what are you planning to do in Kherson now in general in the near foreseeable future?

ГР: We're planning now to buy things, get dressed.

КА: You don't have any belongings, right?

ГР: Yes, and to wait, and wait for victory.

КА: God willing, may it come as soon as possible.

ГР: We'll hope. That we will win – that's 100%. How quickly this will happen is still unknown, but we'll hope.

КА: Gennady, thank you and your wife for telling me all of this. This is a very important part of the whole story about the war. It's very joyful to hear that everything is well with you.

ГР: And thank you for your questions.

КА: Maybe you need something? We can, for example, attach your card number to the publication.

ГР: No-no-no, don't, under no circumstances. No, friends come to visit us too, they bring food, we also receive our pension. We don't need money, no, under no circumstances.

КА: Alright, alright, but if you suddenly need something...

ГР: Let the money go to someone who needs it more, we're not in need. Friends help, and two people have already brought us food, now a third will bring some, so everything is fine.

КА: Good, thank you very much!

ГР: And thank you! Now Lena came to see, and then our photographs too

КА: Thank you! Have a good day, all the best.

ГР: Goodbye.